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Accidents
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Did anyone die in the accident in Sverdlovsk?
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Did you know someone who was accidentally infected at work?
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Please cite an example of an accident in biological weapons work.
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What caused the acident in Sverdlovsk?
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What happened in Sverdlovsk in 1979?
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What killed the victims of the Sverdlovsk accident?
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What kind of work was being done at the center in Sverdlovsk?
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What was the leadership's response to the Sverdlovsk accident?
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Whose fault is it when an accident happens (1)?
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Whose fault is it when an accident happens (2)?
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Why did people die in the Sverdlovsk disaster?
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Why was the anthrax development work moved from Sverdlovsk to Stepnogorsk?
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Andrew Weber
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01. How did you end up working at the U.S. Embassy in Kazakhstan?
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02. What were you working on in Kazakhstan?
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03. What was the Nunn-Lugar Program?
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04. What was the most striking thing about the Soviet bioweapons program?
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05. Was the Soviet bioweapons program funded well?
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06. Can you offer an example of a non-proliferation project?
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07. What was special about Stepnogorsk?
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08. When did you first visit Stepnogorsk?
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09. Can you describe your first visit to Stepnogorsk?
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10. Were you told the truth about the Stepnogorsk plant?
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11. What was the break-through moment of your Stepnogorsk visit?
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12. What did you find at the Stepnogorsk plant?
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13. What did this anthrax factory look like?
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14. Can you describe something you saw at the Stepnogorsk plant?
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15. Did the Stepnogorsk scientists do all their testing at the plant?
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16. Were you able to see the remote testing grounds?
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17. "After the official part of the visit was over, they were very open with us."
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18. "Gennadiy Lepeshkin accompanied us to the island."
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19. "A lot depends on the individual."
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20. "They had been lied to by their own government."
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21. Where was the island that the scientists used for testing their work?
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22. What did you find on the Vozrozhdeniya Island?
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23. "Sometimes they used as many as 100 monkeys for one test."
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24. "Top secret when filled in."
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25. "We don't want other countries to repeat this experience."
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26. Hundreds of animal cages
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27. Over 100 tons of anthrax were buried on the island
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28. "It felt like the Moon landing."
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29. "Dangerous pathogens were stored in many laboratories."
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30. "We considered Gennadiy to be part of our team."
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Animals Used for Testing
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Animals die at farms, and they die in labs. Is there a difference?
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How did you feel about the animals that were used in testing?
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What killed the animals that were used in testing?
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What kind of animals are used in testing weapons?
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What were the animals used for?
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Where did you get the animals that you used for testing?
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Anne Harrington
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01. About a million people were involved in Soviet nuclear weapons production
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02. We were addressing Soviet nuclear weapons and ignoring other kinds
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03. Very little was known about the biological weapons community in Russia
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04. Biological weapons existed in Russia for decades
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05. We started engaging the biological community in Russia in 1994
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06. The ISTC reached out to the biological weapons community
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07. Funding projects in Russia opened the door for us to go and visit
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08. There was some suspicion and sensitivity
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09. Some Russian institutions held back for years
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10. They said, "You're okay."
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11. The ISTC ran financial and programmatic audits
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12. Our goal was to work with the communitites relevant to non-proliferation issues
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13. One Russian scientist was given vacuum cleaners in lieu of salary
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14. People were struggling to put food on the table
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15. We took the time to listen to people
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16. "We've lost the dachas on the Black Sea."
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17. Russian scientists were losing their perks
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18. They had a personal relationship with their pathogens
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19. There was pride in the work that they did
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20. Some of the biological weapons experts happily moved to other areas
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21. The Novosibirsk State University has a happy population of former Vector scientists
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22. They are happy to have the academic freedom to publish
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23. The U.S.S.R. was convinced that the U.S. continued to develop biological weapons
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24. Many Russian officials never admitted what president Yeltsin declared
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25. Russian scientists were put in the position of being international criminals
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26. The ability to talk about the work they did in the past was a substitute confessional
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27. The only nostalgia we saw was for the economic stability of life in the U.S.S.R.
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28. "A few people got rich, and the rest of us have nothing."
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29. Gennady oversaw the facility for producing tons of anthrax
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30. The facility at Stepnogorsk was a mobilization plant for anthrax production
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31. Their job was to produce anthrax to kill Americans
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32. What struck you was the massive size
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33. It was absolutely gargantuan
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34. They were producing men's suits in a former biological weapons facility
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35. Plague in a pea can
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36. We suspected they carried out tests there (on the V. island)
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Dastan Eleukenov
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01. At one time only 30% of the population were ethnic Kazakhs
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02. There were many camps for political prisoners in Kazakhstan
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03. Kazakhstan was an enormous test site
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04. Kazakhstan was used to test nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons
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05. What was the first step in researching the bioweapons facilities in Kazakhstan?
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06. Kazakhstan had many biological research centers
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07. The biological weapons program violated our international commitments
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08. It is easy to conceal biological weapons
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09. Military logic is simple
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10. About the arms race
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11. A scientist is a person who satisfies his curiosity at government's expense
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12. The Stepnogorsk facility was a strictly military enterprise
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13. The Stepnogorsk plant was ready to produce biological weapons
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14. The scale of production at the Stepnogorsk plant
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15. Lepeshkin told the real story to the government of Kazakhstan
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16. Did the public in Kazakhstan learn the secrets of Stepnogorsk?
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17. Was information about Stepnogorsk published?
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18. Vozrozhdeniya Island was an ideal testing site
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19. Animals could carry the infection from the island to the mainland
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20. Is it true that biological weapons can be easily produced in a make-shift lab?
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Discipline in the workplace
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Did people violate the code of behavior in the workplace?
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How did the discipline at Stepnogorsk compare to the army (1)?
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How did the discipline at Stepnogorsk compare to the army (2)?
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How was the work ethic at your center in Stepnogorsk?
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Family
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01. Did your children know what you did for a living? Do they know now?
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02. Did your family know about your work in biological weapons?
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03. Did your wife know what you were working on?
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04. What did your children know about your work?
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05. What did your parents do?
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06. When it became possible, did you tell your family about your work in those days?
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Gary Crocker
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01. I came to the Bureau of Intelligence at the State Department in 1974
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02. Was it a surprise for the US to discover the Soviet bioweapons program?
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03. We had to rely on the photo interpreter
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04. Photo interpreters identified key bioweapons facilities in the USSR
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05. William Beecher's 1975 article in the Boston Globe
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06. The military people don't like biological weapons
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07. It's ironic that when we quit, the Russians kicked their bioweapons program into high gear
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08. The scientists in both countries thought they were building deterrents
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09. When Sverdlovsk happened, we knew what it was
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10. The US knew about the Soviet biological weapons program, so why didn't we restart ours?
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11. "To my knowledge there's no country that has biological weapons."
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12. There was a senior person who refused to believe the evidence
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13. Pasechnik told us that plague was their most important biological weapon
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14. By 1992 the White House was ready to move
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15. Yeltsin didn't know the scale of the bioweapons program in his country
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16. Yeltsin didn't know that Biopreparat employed some forty-five hundred people
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17. "We found you out."
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18. We should give the British more credit than us
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19. Pasechnik was one of the most important defectors from the USSR
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20. "I was in the presence of evil."
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21. Pasechnik gave us the smoking gun
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Gennadiy Lepeshkin and David Franz
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01. David and Gennady: Personal beginnings
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02. Gennady: "We were told to prepare for an attack."
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03. Looking at photos from Stepnogorsk. Part 1
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04. Looking at photos from Stepnogorsk. Part 2
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05. Order of the Red Star for secret work
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06. We did not discuss ethical issues, but we did know about the Convention
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07. The farther from Moscow, the more freedom--but within limits
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08. The Nunn-Lugar program was a success
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09. Gennady: "I knew that Andy Weber was a spy."
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10. "Thanks to Andy Weber, our scientists got a lot of support."
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11. The stockpiles of biological weapons have been destroyed
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12. An award from Senator Lugar
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13. David: "Gennady made a huge difference."
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14. Gennady: "Biological weapons are no more frightening than firearms."
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15. Gennady: "There's no need for biological weapons."
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16. David: "It is impossible to maintain huge biological weapons programs today."
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17. If you don't talk, you mistrust the other person
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18. Trilateral agreement. "Figure it out, it's only science."
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19. Nonproliferation of nuclear weapons is different from biological weapons
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Gennadiy Lepeshkin and Gary Crocker
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01. How many people worked at the Sepnogorsk plant, and what's there now?
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02. Two buildings at the Stepnogorsk plant were demolished
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03. The funding stopped before all elements of weaponization were completed
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04. Were any attempts made to commercialize the Stepnogorsk plant?
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05. Why the capacity to produce tremendous amounts of bioweapons?
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06. The effort directed to bioweapons production could have produced tons of pharmaceuticals
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07. Where did the people who worked at the Stepnogorsk plant do their testing?
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08. How much of this was known to the American intelligence services?
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09. Did the Soviet scientists know that the American program was discontinued?
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10. Did you know that you were violating the treaty?
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11. On multiple infection sources in Sverdlovsk: why a BW attack is a complicated affair
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12. The USSR had to save face as well as hide their military program
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13. In 1992, the US was more interested in supporting Yeltsin than in establishing the truth
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14. Voice of America reported the Sverdlovsk disaster the very next day
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15. How does one become a military microbiologist (part 1)?
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16. How does one become a military microbiologist (part 2)?
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17. How military microbiologists justified their work
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18. Trust and verify
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19. Keeping secrets from your own government and from other countries
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20. "When I testified before a joint session of Congress..."
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21. It's no great secret that we knew that they knew what our satellites were doing
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Gennadiy Lepeshkin and Milton Leitenberg
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01. When working on your book, who did you talk to in the former Soviet bioweapons program?
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02. Why didn't you interview some scientists who were living in Russia?
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03. Just how secret was the existence of the Soviet bioweapons program?
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04. Why does the secrecy around the program exist even today?
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05. Why did Yeltsin close the bioweapons program?
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06. Did you participate in the creation of the document that Yeltsin published?
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07. Did you receive the text of Yeltsin's announcement?
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08. How did the public learn about Yeltsin's decree to abolish the program?
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09. Yeltsin put the foxes in charge of the chickens (about chemical weapons)
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10. Did the Soviet scientists know about the Convention that banned their work?
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11. Orders from Moscow to discontinue work and restructure the Stepnogorsk facility
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12. The Stepnogorsk institute stopped all research into pathogens in 1990
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13. What was your reaction when bioweapons work was declared a criminal offense?
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14. What happened to the scientists after the work was stopped?
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15. The line between research and development doesn't exist
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16. The ranking of the Stepnogorsk facility among other similar facilities
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17. How was the finished product transferred to the bunkers in Stepnogorsk?
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18. How was the stockpiled anthrax transported to Vozrozhdeniya Island for burial?
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19. Why did people continue to become infected 69 days after the Sverdlovsk disaster?
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20. Why were there several strains of anthrax in Sverdlovsk?
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21. What did the first inspection team learn in Stepnogorsk?
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Gennady Lepeshkin and Richard Spertzel
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01. What agents and vaccines did you work with at USAMRIID?
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02. "We, too, have had scientists who accidentally became infected in the lab."
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03. "I was called 'the walking guinea pig'."
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04. How the work of American microbiologists differed from that in Russia
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05. What was the effect in Fort Detrick of the abolishment of the US biowepons program?
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06. Could you speak about the people who oppose the use of animals in scientific research?
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07. Where did the animals come from?
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08. Where was the anthrax made that was mailed to various officеs in the US in 2001?
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09. Many people say that biologiocal weapons served as a good deterrent
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10. "In 2004 I had my forty-first trip to Iraq."
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11. "When doing inspection work in Iraq, how did you know how much they had achieved?"
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12. A pact was signed between Iraq and Syria about chemical and biological weapons
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13. "It's not a lie when you are ordered to lie."
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14. "You had to catch them in an obvious lie."
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GNL: Reflections on the past
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01. Epigraph
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02. I was born into a military family
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03. I was proud of my country
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04. At first I was a so-so student...
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05. We worked hard, and at night we sang songs
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06. They sent me to the Military Medical Academy
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07. In 1984, Stepnogorsk was a wonderful town
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08. It was a modern city of concrete and glass
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09. Stepnogorsk has gone downhill
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10. When I came to the facility, no one knew its purpose
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11. Prior to my arrival, they were merely putting up buildings
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12. Alibekov and I primed the facility for pathogen research
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13. Our group worked hard and played hard
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14. Violations of the protocol could not be tolerated
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15. The story of a foolish boss (version 1)
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16. The story of a foolish boss (version 2)
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17. I still have lots of friends in Stepnogorsk
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18. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union...
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19. I was made the General Director
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20. Moscow dropped their support, those were hard times
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21. I wanted to eat at the old cafe, but it was gone
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22. The city has gone to seed
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23. They knew my dog, they sang with me
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24. Their future is uncertain
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25. You won't find the same atmosphere in Stepnogorsk
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26. Our special flight used to take us to the testing grounds in 3 hours
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27. Vozrozhdeniya Island used to be an oasis
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28. When the Aral Sea had fish, life was good in Aralsk
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29. The sea receded, the ships got stripped down to the carcasses
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30. The ships were gone, nothing was left but camels
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31. A horse is a must for any Kazakh
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32. Ten years ago the island turned into a peninsula
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GNL: The Almaty Interview
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01. What is the current state of the center that you ran in Stepnogorsk?
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02. Why were aerosols so important for biological weapons work?
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03. Why were primates used in testing?
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04. Why was the work on tularemia so important?
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05. What was the process of getting a product approved for use?
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06. How do they clean up an infected area?
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07. Is it true that a biological weapon was used at Stalingrad during the war?
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08. How many people died while doing research on biological weapons?
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09. I read that someone died on the island, too. Is that true?
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10. Is it true that in 1928 the Red Army studied typhus for use as a weapon?
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11. Did work in a biological lab put your life at risk?
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12. Have accidents happened in biological weapons work?
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13. Have you heard that the accident in Sverdlovsk was called "biological Chernobyl"?
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14. I heard that the Stepnogorsk center was designed as an anthrax factory.
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15. Would you like to add any thoughts?
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GNL: The Washington Interview
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01. How many times did you travel to Vozrozhdeniya Island for testing?
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02. What were the duties of the soldiers who worked for you at the testing grounds?
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03. Did the soldiers participate in the testing on animals?
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04. How could the soldiers at the testing grounds fail to know about pathogen testing?
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05. "Who is going to stage an attack on a calm day?"
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06. What was the daily routine on Vozrozhdeniya Island?
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07. After a pathogen was developed, were samples sent out for testing?
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08. How much freedom did scientists have to develop ideas that were not in the plan?
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09. Project Whitecoat: Was there a similar program in the Soviet Union?
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10. If the task of each institute was narrow, how was their work coordinated?
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11. How did you feel about moving to Kazakhstan from Russia? How did it go?
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12. How did you decide to go into scientific work? What inspired you?
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13. Can you tell us about your first visit to the US?
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14. How did the Allen project work?
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15. Tell us about your first meetings with Andy Weber at Stepnogorsk
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16. How come Andy Weber's scrutiny of your facility didn't make uncomfortable?
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17. Was the KGB interested in your relationship with Andy Weber?
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18. You were undoing the work of your life. How did you feel about that?
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19. What was your reaction as you participated in destroying your equipment?
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20. What goes through your heart as you look at the pictures of those fermentors?
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21. Did you see the need to stockpile weapons as a Soviet thing?
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22. What did you think of Gorbachev? Did you see what was coming?
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23. Did you see signs of the coming colapse of the USSR?
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24. How did you react to the approaching change?
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25. When did the financial problems start affecting your facility?
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26. Did you share your observations with scientists at other institutions?
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27. How would you compare life in the Soviet period to post-Soviet Russia?
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28. Do you expect to see economic and political progress in Russia?
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29. Huge resources were allocated to the military. Where are they applied now?
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30. Were any innovation made in the BW complex transferred to the civilian economy?
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31. What do you want your legacy to be?
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32. What do you think of the disappearance of censorship from everyday life?
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My Work
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01. Are you happy about working in biological weapons most of your life?
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02. Did you ever want to switch to civilian work?
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03. Did you have an option to change your line of work?
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04. Did you look for a different type of work?
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05. Did you try to switch to a less dangerous line of work?
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06. Do you like thinking of your life in Stepnogorsk in those days?
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07. Do you remember starting your work in Stepnogorsk?
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08. Was it your own choice to work in that field?
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09. Were you afraid while working with biological weapons?
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10. Were you making more money than someone in similar civilian work?
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11. What did you and your friends and co-workers talk about?
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12. What did you like, and what did you not like, about your work in biological weapons?
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13. What influenced the direction of your professional life?
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14. Where did you live and how did you get to work?
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Pilot
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10-minute trailer w/English voiceover (6 November 2011)
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13-minute trailer w/English voiceover (25 November 2011)
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Draft December 22, 2011 (27 minutes)
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Politics
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01. Could the Soviet biological weapons have been used in case of war?
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02. Did Yeltsin do the right thing when he discontinued the biochemical weapons programs?
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03. Did you and your friends talk about the actual use of biological weapons?
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04. Did you have ethnic Kazakhs in leadership positions at the center in Stepnogorsk?
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05. Did you have many ethnic Kazakhs working at the center in Stepnogorsk?
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06. Did you think biological weapons would be used?
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07. How are biological weapons different from other kinds of weapons?
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08. How do biological weapons compare to nuclear weapons in financial terms?
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09. How do biological weapons compare to nuclear weapons?
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10. How has Stepnogorsk changed since those days?
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11. How often did the directors of the Stepnogorsk center go to Moscow?
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12. Is it possible that rogue nations are developing biological weapons?
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13. Is there a possibility that biological weapons might be used by terrorists?
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14. Some people think that all work in biological weapons is a crime. Do you agree?
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15. Was the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. a difficult process for you?
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16. What did you think of the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. at the time?
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17. What do you think of the Soviet period in Kazakhstan?
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18. What needs to be said about those days and those events?
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19. What options did your co-workers have when the programs were discontinued?
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20. What were your political views in those days?
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21. What would you like to tell people about those days (1)?
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22. What would you like to tell people about those days (2)?
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23. Who bore the brunt of the fall of the U.S.S.R.?
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24. Why did the U.S.S.R. develop biological weapons?
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25. Why didn't you have more ethnic Kazakhs working at the Stepnogorsk center?
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26. Why was it necessary for the U.S.S.R. to develop biological weapons?
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27. Why was the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. so painful for Kazakhstan?
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28. Why were various military testing centers located in Kazakhstan?
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Public discussions
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01. What were all those biological weapons going to be used for?
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02. Why did the USSR decide to expand their biological weapons program in 1972?
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03. So you produced tons of offensive agents while you knew that you would never use it?
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04. What did the government of Kazakhstan think of the testing on Vozrozhdeniya Island?
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05. Why did the scientists agree to live and work in that difficult climate?
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06. Did the scientists work on the weapons by choice, despite having taken the Hippocratic Oath?
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07. How large was the military division that supported bioweapons testing on Vozrozhdeniya Island?
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08. How the biological agent was turned into a weapon
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09. We dug up tons of anthrax that was buried on Vozrozhdeniya Island
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10. Many members of the Politburo did not know about their own bioweapons program
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11. How many of their fermentors did they test with live agents?
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12. Even today American inspection teams are not allowed to visit Russian military facilities. Why?
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13. Working with Gorbachev we had better access to information about the Russian side than we do now
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Secrecy
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Did you sign a document that kept you from talking about your work?
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What can you tell us about Gvardejsky (a village, now closed to all foreigners)?
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What did you tell people about your work?
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Who have you talked to about your work? Your family, perhaps?
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Sergei Popov: My Science
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01. Genetic engineering for more effective weapons
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02. Another approach: combining bacterial and viral infections
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03. You treat the patient for one disease, and he dies from the other one
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04. Fatality rate from our smallpox strain can reach 100 percent
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05. Diphtheria toxin implanted in smallpox bacteria
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06. Recombinant legionella: the animals were paralyzed from the waist down
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07. I found the system profoundly depressing
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08. We had more money than we could use, but it was dead-end work
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09. Yeltsin signed his decree, and there was no more food for our animals
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10. The good and the bad (combines clips 08 and 09)
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11. Were you frightened by your ability to create new life forms?
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12. No one had any use for us anymore
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13. American biologists were also told that they were superfluous
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14. The biological agent we were to develop had to be lethal
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15. The Soviet military doctrine was similar to Lenin's revolutionary doctrine
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16. I was fond of my country, but it ended up oppressing its people
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17. What is the fatal flaw of capitalism that you discovered?
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Sergei Popov: The System
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01. We do not know how to protect the civilian population from a biological attack
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02. An anthrax vaccine will be useless
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03. A smallpox vaccine may turn out to kill more people than the smallpox virus
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04. How likely is a biological attack against the U.S.?
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05. We never discussed the practical aspects of a biological attack
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06. I never believed that biological weapons would be used
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07. The stockpiled arms served as a deterrent
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08. Biological weapons gave the U.S.S.R. a unilateral advantage
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09. When you strike the enemy, you strike your own forces as well (1)
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10. When you strike the enemy, you strike your own forces as well (2)
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11. Defense against new types of pathogens and the program called Factor
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12. We do not value our people
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13. In the U.S. I feel a lot more comfortable
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14. The smallpox epidemic in Aralsk in 1971
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15. Biological weapons program in the U.S.S.R.
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16. Anti-plague institutions participated in developing biological weapons
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17. The Baltic republics were only indirectly involved in the program
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18. The biological weapons institute in Novosibirsk
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19. Developing biological weapons was the main purpose of my institute
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20. From developing new viruses to developing new bacteria
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21. Suddenly I could live very close to Moscow
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22. We were given our own apartments and a double salary
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23. How one was recruited for secret work
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24. One couldn't turn around and leave
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25. Very few were able to escape
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26. We were proud of being trusted with important work
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27. How did the secrecy affect the research?
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28. Secrecy destroys the system
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29. Secrecy kills science
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30. The leadership of my institute did not want the problems to be solved
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31. Science versus administrative squabbles
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32. My lab technicians were asked to evaluate me by a general vote
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33. The word of the institute director and the Party was the law
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34. Secret research institutions were prone to degeneration
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Yuri Orlov
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01. The Soviet population was told to prepare for war
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02. People who developed biological weapons were criminals
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03. Development of nuclear weapons should be against the law
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04. An officer could have refused to carry out an order
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05. Training exercises that irradiated soldiers in Central Asia
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06. Secrecy was such that I wasn't allowed to read my own calculations
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07. Even a prison guard could be given an apartment as a reward for his work
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08. The military-industrial complex in the Soviet economy
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09. Even the KGB lost their faith in Soviet ideology
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10. Yeltsin was being sincere when he decreed the abolishion of the biological weapons program
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11. An example of the economic effect of the dissolution of the USSR
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