S. Popov: The only reason that secret institutes survive is because some... I imagine that some of the people maintain those principles and those... those moral standards that they acquired while doing unclassified scientific research. But generally people change very quickly. It even becomes a plus for them not to solve scientific problems. That was what I ran into at the Obolensk Institute. It was not to the advantage of the director of the institute for his employees to solve a problem. It was better for him if the staff members demonstrated that a problem was so complex that they needed to work on it for another ten years. That is, if a problem was framed very rapidly and solved very efficiently, he would run into problems. And really, what was the point of that? It was better to say that we... our results were disappointing, and that we needed to keep on working, and on and on, and get more and more and more money. And the upshot was that there was never any deliverable produced.