Gary Crocker: A lot of books I read, and things, it's like it was discovered when the defector comes out in 1989, or something along this line. Or, that we were totally surprised when the defector... or people who had argued there was no program are totally surprised. You know... 'Cause those people could have been right, it's just... you may have seen the quotes, I mean, that the people finally admitted that this bunch of bugs-and-gas people were right all along, you know, for decades, that the Soviet Union had this program. I first was exposed to a large body of material from World War II, and afterwards, both from Germans, and from Russians, which told us about the program: That it went back to the 1920's, 1930's. It's not, you know, started in, some people think, '73. It was started way back. Um... most of my information... my mentor, put it that way, was a British analyst. Brilliant person. Not always respected in his own country, for the same reasons that we had in... in fighting this problem. But he was brilliant. And he had studied and gone to records, and he knew Russians, and he knew this history, but couldn't get it published... very similar to our problem.