Gary Crocker: In our country we kept... they kept a biological weapons program secret from lots of Congressmen, and political people, military people didn't know. And that was a different time. That isn't today, I guarantee you. And I once sat on a group to... our job was to make sure the military was not violating the treaty. I mean we inside the government, are out checking to make sure they're not making stuff, OK, and doing bad things. So, we have a verification process within our own government. You know, probably a little weaker in the Soviet Union, I mean, you know, I'm not going to say, but I think there was a lot of people in the Soviet Union, watching, you know, and willing to say something bad's going on, so I hope, I hope there's an investigative process going on there. Certainly, it is here. It would be very difficult to start up something, and not find out about it in this country, I think.
Gennadiy N. Lepeshkin: We also have a division like that. That is, there is a unit which keeps track of the staff and what they are doing, what their strategy is, what they're thinking and what actions they are carrying out. That is, there is such a division: a division for tracking our country's own security. And it has specific instructions that it follows, which lay out clearly its activity. They are supposed to keep tabs on whether orders are being carried out to the letter, directives, the behaviour of particular people carrying out specific operations. Basically, yes, there is supposed to be such a division.
Crocker: And we actually have executive orders from... the presidential orders that if we prove, for example, that somebody is producing biological weapons someplace, then according to that order, and sometimes it's а congressional mandate, too, that we may not trade with them, or we may not do this. In other words, it sets off a series of actions, if we can prove that. Now, it's not always easy, because there's also people that want to do business with that country, so making that case sometimes of compliance is not always that easy. But if you have a clear-cut case, then that country can be sanctioned, or you can't trade with them, or certain things will come into play. So, we, I would say this, having been around a few years: we take compliance and verification very serious. I mean it's a very serious matter, and you know, the question is maybe who's going to win, sometimes, between the business interest and the policy interest.
Lepeshkin: We have a similar process, but it is not known to the broader public. There are specific agencies assigned to that, there are special reports that they... well, basically, it's not something that makes it into the papers.