Gary Crocker: I was into this subject, I talked to a lot of people. 'Why can't I get you to listen to this about new agents, you know, both chemical and bio, why don't you want to hear about this?' 'Well, because we built this suit, we got all this money to build a suit, and now you're telling me that the Soviet agent's going to penetrate that suit, and I'm not gonna get any more money to buy protective suits, okay.' You getting now... am I making this clear? It's 'we did know, but you couldn't sell it,' and what reigns in this country? Nuclear deterrence, nuclear war, so, well, if they mess around with biological, we got nukes, so that's... the nuclear lobby was too strong for us, if I could put it that way, to break through and get people interested, and there was, you know, lots of excuses, and you had people like Professor Nesselson at Harvard helping out at every Congressional hearing, saying that the Biological and Toxin Weapon Commission, it worked and it's working, it's a success, and there is no country, to my knowledge, he said, that has biological weapons. This is only months before the first defector comes out, you know, and reveals the program, so, you know, he was a spoiler, but we had a lot of those kinds of people.