Gary Crocker: I think it's ironic, actually, that we have a program comes out of World War II, we learned things from the Japanese so did the Soviets, um... we... but we go pretty large. We build a pretty big BW program. Highly classified, very few people knew about it. Nixon decides, and there's a whole lot of reasons, and a lot of military people didn't like them, so, and I think there was also an aversion to the idea of Americans putting disease in a warhead, you know. So, that program is cancelled in '69, and much of it is destroyed. Later, Senator Church comes along, and they find there's a stockpile of toxins and stuff for assassination, or in that event... that gets... gets erased, too. Alright, but here's the irony: at least what the Soviets have told me. The irony is: they are the ones that made a mistake. They underestimated the US program. So, when all of this comes out in the hearings and everything, heads are rolling in Moscow. Why didn't they know they were working on this, and they were working... you know, doing this stuff? So, when we get rid of our program, is when they dec... really by '73, they're rolling with Biopreparat. You know, this is thousands and thousands of people doing this work. And they were really pushing the envelope, further than we did. But it's in a reaction, because they told me they didn't believe we actually stopped. They thought it was a fake, and that we were still secretly working on it, ok? And I would say that belief persists right up to where we brought them to the United States, and we took them to Pine Bluff, and to Fort Detrick, and they realized there was no BW going on there. I remember one of them in particular, saying, "Wow, I was sure you still were... I was sure... you know, thought Pine Bluff was still going, or, you know, Detrick's very active. But it's very clear that you haven't used that big, black sphere," Detrick, if you haven't been there, it's still sitting there, "that, you know, you haven't been blowing things up in there." So, it's ironic that when we quit, and got out the business, they really kicked it.